<html>
<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2021-07-06 · wg-traits · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/index.html">wg-traits</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html">meeting 2021-07-06</a></h3>

<hr>

<base href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com">

<head><link href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/style.css" rel="stylesheet"></head>

<a name="245082602"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245082602" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245082602">(Jul 06 2021 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Will folks be around today? I can join, but fair warning that we just lost power + internet for a bit, and that could happen. Huge storm here!</p>



<a name="245082937"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245082937" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245082937">(Jul 06 2021 at 18:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll be around</p>



<a name="245083244"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245083244" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245083244">(Jul 06 2021 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll be around and definitely have things to discuss :)</p>



<a name="245091361"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091361" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091361">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Howdy <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span></p>



<a name="245091430"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091430" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091430">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Before we dive into technical stuff, i'd like to discuss our overall organization</p>



<a name="245091565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091565">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>For one thing, I'd like to incorporate <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124288">@oli</span> more as they transition back</p>



<a name="245091569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091569">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I don't think that this time works so well for them (Europe)</p>



<a name="245091600"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091600" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091600">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>But also, I was thinking that maybe we should get a <em>bit</em> sprint-y again, except I didn't find the 6-week sprints worked that well</p>



<a name="245091619"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091619" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091619">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>We're also updating how we manage things in the lang team</p>



<a name="245091634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091634">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, I'm definitely okay to switch times</p>



<a name="245091639"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091639" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091639">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>And I want to incorporate some of the trait related projects into lang team initiatives</p>



<a name="245091644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091644">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>generally</em> pretty open</p>



<a name="245091648"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091648" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091648">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>Also</em> I've not been able to make those daily syncs, though that may change</p>



<a name="245091661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091661">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I remember that they really helped us to make progress for a time</p>



<a name="245091668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091668">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I'd like to get back to it :)</p>



<a name="245091673"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091673" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091673">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245091600">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>But also, I was thinking that maybe we should get a <em>bit</em> sprint-y again, except I didn't find the 6-week sprints worked that well</p>
</blockquote>
<p>so, I think the sprints worked best when we had smaller self-contained tasks to do</p>



<a name="245091685"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091685" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091685">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>Finally</em> I'm going to be on vacation for first two weeks of August</p>



<a name="245091759"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091759" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091759">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245091661">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but I remember that they really helped us to make progress for a time</p>
</blockquote>
<p>love them</p>



<a name="245091769"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091769" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091769">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>my thoughts on sprints was that I think maybe a "monthly planning meeting" might be a good idea</p>



<a name="245091788"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091788" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091788">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>where we go over the project boards and kind of orient ourselves</p>



<a name="245091819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091819">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I dont' think we have to pick every thing we will do in between meetings, but just evaluating overall priorities seems good</p>



<a name="245091833"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091833" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091833">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's not a terrible idea</p>



<a name="245091850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091850">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Do we think that it</p>



<a name="245091854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091854">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I found the 6 week cadence was too long</p>



<a name="245091858"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091858" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091858">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>is worth a full meeting</p>



<a name="245091872"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091872" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091872">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or, as part of the regular meeting</p>



<a name="245091903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091903">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll be honest</p>



<a name="245091912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091912">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure the regular meeting makes sense</p>



<a name="245091929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091929">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm, that's fair</p>



<a name="245091963"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091963" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091963">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wonder if it makes more sense to hvae a planning meeting and then have, for each active initiative we are working on, defined times</p>



<a name="245091995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091995">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ooh I like that idea</p>



<a name="245091998"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245091998" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245091998">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we are working on a few things</p>



<a name="245092026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092026">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>me too</p>



<a name="245092031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092031">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>It does mean we'll end up having <em>more</em> meetings overall</p>



<a name="245092041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092041">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably</p>



<a name="245092046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092046">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, but they'll be focused</p>



<a name="245092056"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092056" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092056">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>and not everyone is expected to attend</p>



<a name="245092096"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092096" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092096">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>What are the things we're working on in this thread?</p>



<a name="245092106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092106">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am starting to list and realizing I got a long list</p>



<a name="245092110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092110">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>TAIT</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092115"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092115" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092115">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>GAT</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092124">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>chalk-ty</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092125"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092125" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092125">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well...I'm not sure who all attends regularly</p>



<a name="245092126"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092126" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092126">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>upcast</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092164"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092164" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092164">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>incremental ICEs</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092166"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092166" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092166">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>incremental</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092175"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092175" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092175">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>beat me</p>



<a name="245092252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092252">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's another vague one, I've been talking to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="325709">@Jade</span> about adding some support for something in rust-analyzer</p>



<a name="245092258"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092258" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092258">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>which will require poking on chalk</p>



<a name="245092287"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092287" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092287">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm also vaguely working on </p>
<ul>
<li>salsa integration</li>
</ul>



<a name="245092297"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092297" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092297">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I've not had time for that lately :)</p>



<a name="245092310"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092310" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092310">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's kind of a "niko fun times side project"</p>



<a name="245092322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092322">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>(lol that my "side projects" are just branches on rust)</p>



<a name="245092477"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092477" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092477">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's also some Chalk things</p>



<a name="245092486"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092486" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092486">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>the closure bug</p>



<a name="245092488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092488">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that one advantage of having initiatives have a meeting</p>



<a name="245092493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092493">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>is that it'll keep them under control</p>



<a name="245092514"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092514" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092514">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>though not everything that is being worked on needs a meeting</p>



<a name="245092517"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092517" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092517">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., the upcasting may not</p>



<a name="245092522"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092522" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092522">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I do need to allocate time for it</p>



<a name="245092529"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092529" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092529">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel quite overwhelmed atm</p>



<a name="245092543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092543">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>by traits stuff?</p>



<a name="245092548"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092548" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092548">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>or just in general :)</p>



<a name="245092557"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092557" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092557">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>in general, traits, work, etc.</p>



<a name="245092575"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092575" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092575">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, well, I definitely don't want traits to be a source of stress!</p>



<a name="245092632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092632">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>that sounds to me like "scale back a bit"</p>



<a name="245092663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092663">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I propose we do this</p>



<a name="245092681"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092681" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092681">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>(1) Jack, you have one project, and let's setup some times for you + I to sync</p>



<a name="245092684"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092684" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092684">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>eh, I think it's more so that I just want to close out some things</p>



<a name="245092698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092698">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>keep getting stuck</p>



<a name="245092728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092728">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(2) TAIT will be <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124288">@oli</span> + <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> + me as a listener and we will schedule a meeting time for that</p>



<a name="245092744"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092744" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092744">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245092698">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>keep getting stuck</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes...well, you're taking on some ambitious tasks :)</p>



<a name="245092761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092761">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I am probably going to continue to stay away from TAIT right now</p>



<a name="245092789"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092789" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092789">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245092698">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>keep getting stuck</p>
</blockquote>
<p>if you keep getting stuck what do you leave for people like me :P</p>



<a name="245092835"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092835" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092835">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span></p>



<a name="245092867"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092867" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092867">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> I guess "GATs" is your main project right now?</p>



<a name="245092880"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092880" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092880">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that's my push</p>



<a name="245092904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092904">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>that reminds me that another project was <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span> working on removing the old region checker, although that is in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="122657" href="/#narrow/stream/122657-t-compiler.2Fwg-nll">#t-compiler/wg-nll</a> more</p>



<a name="245092912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092912">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>after I push GATs towards stabilization, I'm gonna go back and work on chalk bugs I think</p>



<a name="245092914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092914">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>althogh in my head it is kind of a traits thing</p>



<a name="245092922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092922">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>chalk/chalk-ty</p>



<a name="245092930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092930">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thkn we have to keep our focus on a few things</p>



<a name="245092939"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092939" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092939">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>and not go <em>too</em> crazy</p>



<a name="245092972"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092972" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092972">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>true</p>



<a name="245092996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092996">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm currently minimizing the ICEs from the crater run :)</p>



<a name="245092997"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245092997" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245092997">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://hackmd.io/w9qeVQOUREeyveZ_H95dfA">https://hackmd.io/w9qeVQOUREeyveZ_H95dfA</a></p>



<a name="245093005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093005">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>to start jotting down some notes</p>



<a name="245093094"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093094" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093094">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116113">lqd</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245092996">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(I'm currently minimizing the ICEs from the crater run :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>thank you. I'm pretty sure I know the fix, but it's good to have an MCVE</p>



<a name="245093120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093120">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think e.g. <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> if we setup a weekly 1:1 GATs sync time, we can also do it over zoom or whatever, which may help</p>



<a name="245093140"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093140" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093140">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure, that works</p>



<a name="245093162"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093162" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093162">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I honestly don't think there's all <em>that</em> much to do</p>



<a name="245093172"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093172" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093172">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Just figure out the normalize under binders</p>



<a name="245093179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093179">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yep</p>



<a name="245093181"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093181" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093181">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>And then smaller diagnostics and such</p>



<a name="245093193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093193">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245093172">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Just figure out the normalize under binders</p>
</blockquote>
<p>of course...this is the big one</p>



<a name="245093253"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093253" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093253">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was so thinking that was nearly done</p>



<a name="245093349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093349">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the chalk-ty/rustc-type-ir PR just needs <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>  to take a look</p>



<a name="245093352"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093352" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093352">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, we'll have to dig into it, but I think you're not wrong that we can perhaps bring GATs up to <em>parity</em> by saying "if the <em>trait part</em> has no bound regions...</p>



<a name="245093358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093358">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245093094">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>thank you. I'm pretty sure I know the fix, but it's good to have an MCVE</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I have one already if you want to validate/try out your fix -- <a href="https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&amp;mode=debug&amp;edition=2018&amp;gist=572015e93f2947bc1c4eee95a3a237de">playground</a> (this one is in the <code>typeck</code> query, but I'm working on a very similar one that is in dropck somewhere, if that does matter but seems unlikely)</p>



<a name="245093365"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093365" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093365">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to ask about chalk-ty</p>



<a name="245093371"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093371" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093371">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems like that is worth having a regular meeting about</p>



<a name="245093396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093396">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116113">lqd</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245093358">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245093094">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>thank you. I'm pretty sure I know the fix, but it's good to have an MCVE</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I have one already if you want to validate/try out your fix -- <a href="https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&amp;mode=debug&amp;edition=2018&amp;gist=572015e93f2947bc1c4eee95a3a237de">playground</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>thanks, I'll have to look later</p>



<a name="245093516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093516">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245093371">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>it seems like that is worth having a regular meeting about</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes. I'm curious who might be interested in helping with that. I think once we get <em>this</em> PR landed, it should be smoother sailing</p>



<a name="245093909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093909">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Makes sense</p>



<a name="245093956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093956">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>So take a look at the notes in <a href="https://hackmd.io/w9qeVQOUREeyveZ_H95dfA">hackmd</a></p>



<a name="245093958"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245093958" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245093958">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I suspect we're missing some things :)</p>



<a name="245094109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094109">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Probably</p>



<a name="245094402"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094402" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094402">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Should I merge <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/708">https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/708</a> ?</p>



<a name="245094423"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094423" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094423">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can barely remember what I did there, I remember it was not in a perfect end state :)</p>



<a name="245094427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094427">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I could just keep poking on the branch</p>



<a name="245094451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094451">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245093956">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>So take a look at the notes in <a href="https://hackmd.io/w9qeVQOUREeyveZ_H95dfA">hackmd</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>anyway this is looking decent</p>



<a name="245094507"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094507" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094507">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I guess <em>now</em> it just falls to you + me to schedule times</p>



<a name="245094523"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094523" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094523">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was about to say, you can merge <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/708">chalk#708</a></p>



<a name="245094569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094569">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245094507">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>and I guess <em>now</em> it just falls to you + me to schedule times</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You tell me when works best for you :)</p>



<a name="245094626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094626">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I love that Niko is on everything :)</p>



<a name="245094786"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094786" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094786">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was noticing that and thinking "that's a sign of a problem' :)</p>



<a name="245094815"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094815" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094815">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I just don't want you to get spread out too thin</p>



<a name="245094836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094836">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think you need to be super involved in the chalk-ty bit</p>



<a name="245094861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094861">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, well, for the next 30 minutes, want to dig more into GATs?</p>



<a name="245094864"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094864" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094864">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Other than looking at the open PR and trying to help me figure out the solution</p>



<a name="245094887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094887">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that might be a good place for me to step into a "reviewer" role</p>



<a name="245094906"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094906" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094906">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's probably worth distinguishing "owner" and "liaison" or reviewer</p>



<a name="245094924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094924">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to ask before we get there if we want to just "cancel" future Tuesday meetings</p>



<a name="245094942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094942">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we do</p>



<a name="245094991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094991">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to suggest 4th week of the month for planning</p>



<a name="245094996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245094996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245094996">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245094906">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>it's probably worth distinguishing "owner" and "liaison" or reviewer</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is a good point</p>



<a name="245095031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095031">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Either 4th week or 1st week</p>



<a name="245095063"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095063" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095063">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's do 4th week</p>



<a name="245095087"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095087" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095087">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>We can potentially change to a different slot too</p>



<a name="245095188"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095188" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095188">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, so GATs...</p>



<a name="245095271"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095271" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095271">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there are three ways forward</p>



<a name="245095310"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095310" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095310">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245095063">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Let's do 4th week</p>
</blockquote>
<p>we probably need a "doodle" or something</p>



<a name="245095321"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095321" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095321">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>whatever the New Hotness is for selecting a time</p>



<a name="245095335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095335">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've noticed Doodle getting a bit horrible lately</p>



<a name="245095349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095349">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>1) (most difficult) actually figure out how to handle the case where we don't know enough to project and have to delay</p>



<a name="245095389"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095389" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095389">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>2) Bail out if we can't project and also under binders</p>



<a name="245095494"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095494" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095494">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>3) Only add additionally handling for GATs with bound vars. And leave the case where the is a binder in the trait path as future work.</p>



<a name="245095589"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095589" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095589">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>1 will require us to rethink some things</p>



<a name="245095590"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095590" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095590">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm pretty tempted by 3</p>



<a name="245095627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095627">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>2 might be a nice compromise; it's <em>mostly</em> the current state and fixes a lot</p>



<a name="245095680"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095680" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095680">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>3 should be pretty easy but leaves a lot on the table</p>



<a name="245095683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095683">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I'm thinking about it</p>



<a name="245095711"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095711" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095711">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>My concern with 2 is that it "best effort" things like that sometimes mean that a lot of stuff works and then it's hard to get the <em>right</em> fix</p>



<a name="245095729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095729">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>because you have to transiently break a few things until everything works again</p>



<a name="245095740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095740">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>otoh I'm not sure this applies here</p>



<a name="245095746"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095746" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095746">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am tempted to somewhat go with 3, unblock GATs, and then hack at 1/2</p>



<a name="245095762"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095762" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095762">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>right, this is what I was wondering</p>



<a name="245095780"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095780" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095780">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>how hard 3 is and whether we can prioritize that</p>



<a name="245095801"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095801" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095801">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think it should be that bad</p>



<a name="245095872"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095872" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095872">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>At worst, it's just replacing the bound vars with placeholders in the assocted type substs, projecting, then inverse</p>



<a name="245095936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095936">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>At best, I think we might be able to not even have to worry about replacing them at all</p>



<a name="245095997"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245095997" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245095997">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>But even under the former, basically all the difficult code has been written</p>



<a name="245096004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096004">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, I think that would be the ideal</p>



<a name="245096028"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096028" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096028">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245095936">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>At best, I think we might be able to not even have to worry about replacing them at all</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this may trip various asserts</p>



<a name="245096033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096033">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that's the main problem</p>



<a name="245096049"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096049" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096049">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>and we can probably fix those asserts to work</p>



<a name="245096096"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096096" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096096">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes. Well, when I've been tinkering this weekend, I think just making sure we pass <code>Binder</code>s around will work</p>



<a name="245096168"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096168" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096168">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>right now, almost all of the project code expects no <code>Binder</code></p>



<a name="245096192"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096192" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096192">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>even though most functions will just immediately do a <code>Binder::dummy</code></p>



<a name="245096242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096242">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok. well, if you approve, I think 3-then-2 is a decent plan</p>



<a name="245096259"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096259" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096259">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay</p>



<a name="245096288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096288">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Then I should be able to do that this week</p>



<a name="245096302"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096302" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096302">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe tonight if things go smoothly</p>



<a name="245096334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096334">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok</p>



<a name="245096615"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096615" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096615">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking somewhat about the equivalent case though. Where we don't know about the self type to project</p>



<a name="245096666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096666">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>But we have a bound var in the assocated type substs</p>



<a name="245096746"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096746" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096746">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't quite follow</p>



<a name="245096782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096782">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>or...maybe I do</p>



<a name="245096803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096803">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>So</p>



<a name="245096805"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096805">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>it may be that (3) doesn't work, you're saying, because sometimes we have to defer</p>



<a name="245096812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096812">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><code>&lt;?0 as Trait&gt;::Assoc&lt;'a&gt;</code></p>



<a name="245096813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096813">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>and we don't know what to normalize to</p>



<a name="245096821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096821">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes yes</p>



<a name="245096851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096851">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>But, I think this will be fine</p>



<a name="245096862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096862">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>but...maybe not</p>



<a name="245096878"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096878" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096878">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>wellllll</p>



<a name="245096912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096912">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>will it?</p>



<a name="245096914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096914">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't see why</p>



<a name="245096918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096918">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know :)</p>



<a name="245096934"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096934" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096934">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>tbh I'm not sure why it matters</p>



<a name="245096963"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096963" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096963">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, I'm not sure why bound variables in the <em>associted type parameter list</em> are different than elsewhere</p>



<a name="245096972"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096972" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096972">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>obviously they can't affect your choice of impl</p>



<a name="245096987"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245096987" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245096987">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if you have e.g <code>&lt;?0 as Trait&gt;::Assoc&lt;'a&gt;</code></p>



<a name="245097010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097010">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>today, we would create <code>?1</code> and then a <code>ProjectionEq</code> predicate</p>



<a name="245097033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097033">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>but those predicates are not allowed to refer to <code>'a</code> in bound form today</p>



<a name="245097045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097045">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it is entirely possible that <code>?1</code> is <code>&amp;'a u32</code> or something</p>



<a name="245097071"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097071" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097071">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>what's annjoying is-- something feels kind of artificial about this</p>



<a name="245097090"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097090" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097090">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, the <em>universal placeholder</em> and the <em>bound form</em> are kind of 1:1</p>



<a name="245097142"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097142" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097142">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like maybe we should be able to fix this "properly"</p>



<a name="245097169"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097169" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097169">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, well, right, I remember the problem :)</p>



<a name="245097195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097195">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's exactly as we were saying before, that if you have <code>for&lt;'a&gt; fn(?1)</code></p>



<a name="245097210"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097210" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097210">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>we need to <em>understand</em> that <code>?1</code> may reference <code>'a</code></p>



<a name="245097227"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097227" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097227">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="245097246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097246">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and we need to not defer operations until <code>?1</code> is known</p>



<a name="245097251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097251">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and we don't have any setup for that</p>



<a name="245097255"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097255" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097255">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it's annoying to make a lot of setup for it</p>



<a name="245097265"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097265" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097265">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>because really we should just not have this problem in the first place</p>



<a name="245097284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097284">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>(i.e., more chalk style, where we never try to do this)</p>



<a name="245097335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097335">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess...we should only have problems where we currently have problems</p>



<a name="245097389"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097389" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097389">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>err</p>



<a name="245097420"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097420" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097420">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245097335">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I guess...we should only have problems where we currently have problems</p>
</blockquote>
<p>tautological</p>



<a name="245097472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097472">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>is this conversation about the "GAIT Bugs <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76826">#76826</a>, <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76407">#76407</a>" topic ?</p>



<a name="245097481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097481">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="245097545"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097545" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097545">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do want to revisit the assumption that we have to solve this to have useful GATs</p>



<a name="245097594"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097594" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097594">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>it may well be true but I'm not <em>sure</em> it is</p>



<a name="245097615"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097615" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097615">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular, I know that people are using GATs to do async fns in traits already</p>



<a name="245097641"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097641" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097641">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the problem is that a lot of times, these mismatches result in ICEs?</p>



<a name="245097702"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097702" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097702">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>certainly "best effort" fix <em>may</em> be fine -- to some extent we're already in a bind because we kind of do a "best effort" thing</p>



<a name="245097720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097720">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it would probalby fix a ton of stuff in practice, yes</p>



<a name="245097854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097854">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(don't mind me, just casually following up on my "repros of the crater run" work, just don't wanna interrupt -- <code>dropck_outlives</code> repro: <a href="https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&amp;mode=debug&amp;edition=2018&amp;gist=122e774a5b1a85cd6cd3c0020f19cb5f">playground</a>)</p>



<a name="245097928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097928">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>So</p>



<a name="245097943"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097943" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097943">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, well, I have to drop off. I'm going to ponder this, but right now I don't know if I think 3 is viable</p>



<a name="245097951"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097951" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097951">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't see what it solves</p>



<a name="245097953"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097953" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097953">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>The reason I think this is kind of blocking</p>



<a name="245097966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245097966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245097966">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>which leaves 2 or 1 :)</p>



<a name="245098007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245098007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245098007">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is that this kind of comes up more often</p>



<a name="245098021"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245098021" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245098021">(Jul 06 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>than the underlying issue <em>without</em> GATs</p>



<a name="245098141"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245098141" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245098141">(Jul 06 2021 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Now, there's definitely plenty that can be done that <em>doesn't</em> cause this to pop up</p>



<a name="245098200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245098200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245098200">(Jul 06 2021 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>But, given that I think we can at least make this <em>better</em> in most situations, I kind of think we should</p>



<a name="245099069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-07-06/near/245099069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06.html#245099069">(Jul 06 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-07-06/near/245092914">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>althogh in my head it is kind of a traits thing</p>
</blockquote>
<p>we can move it here if that's easier for you to track (an update with some good news: Esteban has started reviewing this PR of Matthew's NLL error work <span aria-label="tada" class="emoji emoji-1f389" role="img" title="tada">:tada:</span>)</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
</html>